Interview with Poonam Bir Kasturi of the Daily Dump
The Daily Dump is a growing recycling business started by Poonam Bir Kasturi in Bangalore, India in 2006. In just four years, the Daily Dump has helped enable over 4,500 customers in Bangalore to compost household waste in terra cotta pots that are sold by the Daily Dump. For most of these customers it was probably their first foray into large-scale recycling, as 25-30 kilograms of organic waste each month reduces to 3 kilograms of compost, which can then be used as fertilizer. Poonam and her staff of about 10 call this method “agri-composting” which is a specifically urban solution. The company’s focus has now expanded to include city schools as customers, adding a critical educational aspect to the business.
The Daily Dump is a unique endeavor for several reasons. The company offers a woman-owned business model for other entrepreneurs interested in improving the environment and using ethical commercial practices. In addition, the Daily Dump has helped launch other “clones” who use the same or very similar pot design and composting methods. There are no patents, no royalties, no copyrights, trademarks, or intellectual property lawsuits, and the company does not profit off of the clones. Moreover, Kasturi and her team actively assist the fast followers by sharing technical specifications and advice at no cost. At this time there are 15 clones in India, one of which was established in Bangalore itself, and others in Chile, Brazil, and Florida.
Foreign Policy Digest is pleased to have conducted an interview with Ms. Kasturi on August 3rd 2010 as a follow-up to the interview with Marco Steinberg of the Helsinki Design Lab, which completed an extensive academic study of the Daily Dump. We would like to thank PR Collaborative for facilitating this interview, excerpted below.
FPD: So where does all of the compost material end up?
Our customers can’t really sell it for too much- there’s no money to be made. They either use it in their own garden or give it to their friend who has a garden. In four and a half years we’ve only had one person who sold it back- we have a guaranteed buy back policy. It’s actually good for soil quality, and the yield goes up.
FPD: Where would it all go otherwise?
In India there’s this anti-waste sentiment, and it’s a completely national problem. Gardeners will only work with dry leaves. Other household waste is considered “danghi” or dirty, to be thrown in the streets or in the backyards, for someone else to take care of it. Most of the people coming to desk jobs don’t give a damn! They say “I’m too busy- I don’t have a garden,” or “I don’t have a maid.” At the end of the day we have to persistently be on the ground, a persistent presence. I’m not even going to look for an impact for 15 years. We want to make sure composting doesn’t go wrong. We’re building a foundation.
FPD: Looks like impact already to me. What do you charge for the pot and training?
From the beginning till now we’ve gone from 300 rupees to 820 rupees. There is a perceived value that we’ve built in, and we’ve pushed the value up using a combination of building awareness, a good customer support system, making sure that you try and deliver solutions while also saying a lot about taking ownership of the problem of garbage. Democracy is not just about casting a vote. It’s also about understanding your job as an agent of change. Indians have not traditionally taken an interest in the larger community.
FPD: What have government agencies in India made of your efforts? Have you tried to contract with government?
I’ve taken the route of saying, “I’ll be subversive at best.” I need to create something that is so simple and unintimidating and so completely straight that we won’t face resistance. The minute you say it’s not intimidating, and everyone is invited into the party, you create a different space for a conversation to happen.
The government of India has launched the school sanitation initiative. The government has a huge function in waste management, and our product was featured through a third party. However there is a lot of red tape. I don’t have the patience to sit outside a government office every day.
Sustainability to me means that people can manage their own products and services, and build up a sustainable local economy in that way. But Bangalore has 8,000,000 people- 4,500 is barely a start.
FPD: Why have you chosen to remain a small company instead of hiring more people and expanding the reach of your ideas?
When you’re very lean you can think through things well. I’m happy with the small group that I have and have less interest in rapid growth. I’m more interested in doing this right than coming into the office and managing other staff all day. I don’t want to spend my day doing that, would you?
FPD: I understand exactly what you mean. How did you decide to focus on a composting business amongst all of the opportunities that you could have pursued?
I found that the most obvious issue was defining the mindset of how people consume. I found that composting was the most “not-used” door. Waste is not considered sexy enough in India for most. I studied how to become a “one-stop shop” for a specific aspect of waste management, by watching people’s behavior. I believe you only have one life to live, and here was my chance to do something.
FPD: Many of your customers are composting for the first time. How do you explain to people who have never composted before about the benefits?
We go to demonstrations, make films, we go and talk to a lot of people, show them what they can do. We’re going to schools, and creating awareness there. They tell their friends. We don’t have a marketing budget- word of mouth is the only way that we hope that it will grow. We don’t want to flood the market and have people say it doesn’t work.
We have a 15% dropout rate; they say it doesn’t work and drop out, and we try to give them a free dropout service. We also don’t encourage someone to gift someone a compost bin who doesn’t want it.
FPD: That’s great- you don’t sell for the sake of selling. Please explain your decision to allow other companies to use your business model without charging a royalty or franchise fee?
Most of the clones found out about our process from the web, and we haven’t even met them. As I said before, I’m not interested in expansion. I also don’t want to answer to anybody- I found it completely ineffective. A bigger company would have managers and investors involved in everything. I’m happy that others use the model- it helps create the change I want.
FPD: Do you plan to bring your business into new areas of waste management or other fields?
I’m hoping to expand to create what I call the “harmless home” regarding chemicals and other areas in the home. There are millions of dollars being spent in chemistry labs already. And some of it takes place on the other end of the spectrum, especially in India. Sometimes organic is not easy to use in raw form because of the unpleasant smells and textures. For example, the Method brand of products did a lot of work to get to this point – the right colors, fragrances, textures. We need to find some in-between ground like that with the household.
We are also working with the informal recycling sector – bottles, plastics, etc. Individuals, wholesalers, and recycling plants are smaller than what you think of in the United States. We are trying to understand that process to tie in with that industry before the bigger players come in. The government has to learn that the single point interaction really doesn’t help. You need different people who can pick up different waste.
FPD: There is a lot of talk these days of green companies. It seems like yours is both green and socially responsible.
The basic premise of understanding “green” or why you need to be green- there is a lot of “green-washing” that goes on.
FPD: Like it’s an overused catch phrase?
Exactly. Saying in India that this or that is “green”- I don’t understand that. I think we need to think about the “whole”- that being green isn’t enough. The point is to get a whole story. To be honest I’m not even sure how to explain this concept of whole. I think Method is an example of it.
You’re a person, you have one life, you’ll find something that you’re interested in, you’ll create a magic around it. It’s better that way. There’s enough evidence in human experience of this.
We are five women at Daily Dump, all of the others were customers of mine. We are all very different, but we have good fun. There is a lot of talk about e-waste and metals, etc. but the smaller- scale, such as plastic and composting, are required or it (waste management) will get out of control as a problem.
I want to get on with it. Each of us can do something.
FPD: Thanks for your time today, this was a very interesting interview. I would love to see your work next time I’m in India.
You’re most welcome to visit, I’d be happy to show you what we do here.
Mahanth Joishy is the South Asia Regional Editor of Foreign Policy Digest.
